220A Youth?

[reb87]

I have a gun marked” Savage Model 220A, Savage Arms Corporation,Chicopee Falls Mass USA”.  The barrel is marked  “selected forged steel, proof tested 410 gauge,2 3/4 inch chamber”. I can’t find anything about a gun like this one, most seem to be 3 inch chambered 26 inch barreled guns with full length stocks.  This gun has 11 3/4 LOP and a 22 inch barrel.  It seems to be scaled properly and not a cut down full size gun.  Did savage make a 220 in youth size?   What decade would this gun have been made?  Thanks, Ross

[Garnett]

Ross, according to the date code in your first picture (4F in a circle), your gun was made in 1954.  In looking at your pictures, I believe the barrel and the stock on your gun have been shortened.  The stock should have a 14" length of pull and the barrel should be either 26 or 28 inches in length.  An accurate way to determine if the stock has been cut is to remove the butt plate and look for the assembly letters/numbers that are stamped into the wood under the plate.  If the stock has not been replaced, these L/N's will match.  Try measuring the muzzle.  On a standard 26" barrel the diameter is .54".  If it is thicker than that, most likely it has been cut.  Also, compare the L/N's on the inside of the barrel in front of the lug.  These should match the stock and the inside of the frame, if the gun is original.  There is always a chance that an aftermarket barrel was fitted to the gun.   I have Savage catalogs from 1937 past the dates these guns were discontinued.  There is no information about a "Youth Model".  However, that is not to say there "never was one".   I have in my collection several guns not listed in the Savage catalogs.  It would be helpful if you could furnish pictures of the stock under the plate, and under the barrel in front of the lug, and on the inside of the frame on top of the left rail.  I hope this will help some.  Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your gun with us!

[reb87]

Couldn’t find any marks under the buttplate.  There are light marks around the edge that probably indicate it was cut down and sanded.  A very nice job if it was.  The muzzle measured .53125 and is nicely finished but could have been cut.  Pics should show the rest.  If the barrel is original, and it seems well fitted with working ejector, did they make them chambered 2 3/4 instead of 3 inch?

[Garnett]

Ross, picture 10 clearly shows markings where the butt plate was fitted to the cut stock.  There are also some sanding marks on the stock itself.  The marks under the barrel...."BY&M"(in some combination) should also be on the top left rail (inside, not showing on the outside of the frame) of the frame if the barrel is original to the frame.  Can you send a picture of that?  I will have to do some research on the 2.75 vs. 3 inch chambers.  Because of Christmas traveling, all my guns are in storage and I won't have access to them to check my .410's to see what the chamber length is on each.  I will let you know what I find out.  In the picture of your barrel, the front sight appears to be to close to the muzzle and the muzzle "crown" does not appear to be uniform in shape.  I believe the barrel has been cut.  Also, your forearm has a "5" stamped inside.  I have not been able to determine if the numbers inside the forearms denote barrel size they will fit or the outside shape of the forearm.  There are more unmarked ones than marked ones, so I have not been able to establish a pattern.  Best wishes, Garnett

[reb87]

Great analysis Garnet!  I agree.  I took this pic and didn’t get it in with the rest.  Thanks for your help. 

[Garnett]

Both have the "BY" so they came together.  I will let you know as soon as I can check on the chamber lengths.  Best wishes, Garnett

[Mike Armstrong]

Keep in mind that the standard .410 length before the 3" was 2 1/2", not 2 3/4".

I'm pretty sure that all post-war Savage .410s were 3" chambered.  I've owned a bunch and handled more and never seen one marked 2 3/4" chamber.  In my experience once the 3" chamber became popular for .410s in the mid 1930s, very few American guns were chambered with the old 2 1/2" length.  The only ones that are common are Remington 1100 and 870 model "Skeet" guns, and some handguns that take the shorter .410 shell for defense purposes, none made by Savage, I think.

Before 1935 many Stevens single shots made by Savage after they took over the Stevens brand were chambered for the 2 1/2" shell.

You might run a tightly wrapped piece of rag on a cleaning rod down the barrel of your .410.  If you can't feel any extra resistance near the muzzle, the barrel has probably been shortened--Savage full chokes on .410s are pretty tight.

Altered or not, that 220A is a nifty little gun!  (Now go pop a cottontail or so with it!)

[Mike Armstrong]

That chamber length marking sure looks like it was done at the factory!  My bet is that you have a gun that was done late on Friday afternoon or early on Monday morning (by which I mean that it was a factory error--the wrong stamp was used, one from a larger guage gun.).  Factory errors aren't all that uncommon.  Another possibility is that this was one of the leftover parts that Numrich's rehabilitated from Savage plant closures sites and that Numrich's stamped the barrel with the wrong stamp.

Do 3" shells fit the chamber and eject properly?

[Garnett]

Mike,  thanks for this additional information!  I never thought of a factory error for the 2.75 chamber marking.  I was thinking that all .410's I have seen were 3".

Ross, Please try shooting a 3" shell as suggested by Mike, and let us know.  Best wishes, Garnett

[reb87]

I checked visually and by running a patch down the bore and find no sign of choke.  Fired  3 inch and 2.5, both functioned properly and ejected.  I find the end of chamber at 2.5 inches tapering to 3.125 then a sharp taper to bore diameter.  I’ll bet it was a miss marking at the factory, forgot the short shell was 2.5 not 2.75.  It does make a good candidate for shortening! I figured it was a factory job for sure. 

[Garnett]

Ross, thanks for this additional input!  I believe it to be a factory error on the chamber marking.

[Cleetus]

So by your measurements does the forcing cone taper start around 2 1/2 inches or 3 inches. If it starts at 2 1/2 inches then a regular diet of 3 inch shells might be detrimental. All the same whether it is a 3 or 2 1/2 chambered gun it is kind of cool to have a factory gun marked with a chamber length they didn't make. Kind of like having a 20 gauge marked 3 1/2 inch chamber.

[Garnett]

I am happy to say that "reb87" sold this gun to me!  I do believe the barrel marking to be a factory error and I will display it as such.  At less than 12 inches, the length of pull is too short for my liking.  Since the assembly numbers on this stock are lost, I plan to replace it with an "after market" Boyd Monte Carlo stock.  This stock has a 14.5 inch length of pull.  While this is an "A" suffix model, the wood is a very nice dense walnut.  Because of a difference in finish, the "new" stock does not match the original forearm.  I believe a few coats of Tru-Oil on the new stock will remedy this.  Since the new stock is not a perfect fit, I will have it glass bedded before shooting.  Who am I kidding??? At age 80, I seldom do any shooting, and I certainly can't hit anything with a .410.....I really need a 10 gauge!   Also shown is the interior of the action.  Other than a spider web, the inside is exceptionally clean.  I would like to hear from others who may have a "factory error" marked gun.