219 30-30

[cherokee5425]

I just bought a Savage model 219 in 30-30. When I was younger one of my first guns was a Savage 219 in 20 gauge. Dad had a 30-30 barrel for it also but we never shot that one, although not sure why. Anyhow I have always wanted to find one to have. This one has a Beautiful Color Cased receiver, no markings except a Arrow or Pine Tree stamping on the left side of the receiver. Barrel is marked Savage Arms Corp, Utica, N.Y. Model 219. Can anyone give me an approximant year it was made. Will post pics soon. BTW paid $125.00 for it. 

[Garnett]

It sounds like a good price.  I hesitate to make any guess as to when it was made without more information. Guns were made at Utica from 1937 to about 1946.  However, as best as I can determine, the color casehardened  frames started in 1947 at the Chicopee Falls plant.  Of course you could have a Utica barrel on a Chicopee Falls frame that someone put together.  Please check the assembly numbers to see if they match.  You will find them under the barrel in front of the barrel lug, on the top left inside rail of the frame, and under the butt plate, stamped into the wood stock.  They may not be exactly the same, but close enough to determine if all 3 pieces match.  They will be something like Y over ZP.   Please post pictures.  I am particularly interested in the "Arrow or Pine Tree" on the left side of the receiver and would really like to see a picture of that.  All the M219 Utica guns I have seen, have "-219-" stamped on the lower right rear of the frame and nothing on the left side.  Later guns may have a circle with a number and letter in it.  The letter could determine the year made.  Welcome to this forum and I look forward to hearing from you again.  Hope this info helps.  Best wishes, Garnett 

[cherokee5425]

Here are some pictures. Left side showing Pine Tree or arrow stamp.




Inside receiver showing MV stamp and bottom of barrel.


Right side of frame, no marking

[Garnett]

Thanks for the pictures! The barrel and receiver assembly numbers match and most likely the stock numbers will also.  You have a very nice gun at a great price!  Thanks for sharing with us!  I am going to have to research the "arrow or pine tree".  I don't really recall seeing it before, and especially not on the side of the receiver.  Also, being a Utica gun, it is only the second one I have seen that the frame was color casehardened.  Your gun is what I call a Second Model Utica.  It has all the early outside features other than the "Alloy" black painted trigger guard.  The First Model guns had a steel guard.  Thanks again for sharing with us.  I will see what I can find out about the arrow mark.  Best wishes, Garnett

[Mike Armstrong]

Garnett, is there a chance that this gun was assembled at Chicopee Falls from parts made at Utica on a later, case-colored receiver or an unfinished one made in Utica that was finished at Chicopee Falls later?  I've run into guns made up of older spare parts kept by the factory for customer repairs, then later finished and sold as part of a "cleanup" of saleable inventory. 

Colt did this periodically, which is why you sometimes find "modern" versions of revolvers like the "Army Special" and "New Service" with "old style" frames.  Winchester did a lot of it with their 1885 single shot rifles.  Both did the most of these "cleanups" right after WWI, when the gun market was very slow and cash was very short. 

I have a factory original Colt New Service .44-40 with all the post WWI "Improved Model" features except an "Old Style" frame that must have been forged before 1905!  Serial number and factory letter say that the gun was finished and shipped in 1920.

[Garnett]

Mike, I agree.  Parts were too valuable to be junked because the earlier name, etc. might be on them.  I do believe as you, that Utica marked guns with color casehardened frames were most likely assembled at Chicopee Falls.  Also, the unmarked & unfinished frames made at Utica could have been color casehardened at Chicopee Falls.  There is so much we will never knowand can only guess.

[cherokee5425]

Garnett, Mike thanks for your input on my 219. I have always loved these gun's. Is there anyway to pinpoint about when mine was made? Also I would really love to find a 20ga barrel for it. What would be involved in fitting a 20ga barrel to my receiver to safely fire it? Thanks again.

[Garnett]

The early guns like yours did not have a date code.  Production ending at Utica in 1946 and started in Chicopee Falls in 1947.  Because of the color case hardened frame, I would guess it was made in 1947, but this is just a guess.  As to fitting a 20 gauge barrel....that could or could not be a problem.  The barrels are for sale on Ebay and Gunbroker.  There is a good chance the 20 gauge barrel will drop right in with a perfect, or it may need fitting.  I have had both ways happen to me.  The last barrel I had fitted was a conversion to .219 Zipper.  The first two guns I tried it on, it would not even close.  It almost closed on the third frame and I had my gunsmith fit it.  Also, get a forearm especially for the 20 gauge barrel.  If you modify the rifle forearm to fit the shotgun barrel for sure you will have a large gap around the rifle barrel and the fitting could change enough that it won't lock up on the rifle barrel any more.  Good luck.